A CONVERSATION WITH AMBASSADOR BORISLAV MILOSEVIC
by Jared Israel
Author's note: On May 24th I spoke via three-way telephone with
Borislav Milosevic, Yugoslav Ambassador to Russia from
1998-2000 and before that Ambassador to Algeria.
Ambassador Milosevic understands English well, hence what
I said didn't have to be translated. However, the
Ambassador preferred to speak Serbo-Croatian, which was
kindly translated by Vladimir Krsljanin, International
Secretary of the Socialist Party of Serbia. A few times
Ambassador Milosevic spoke English; it is indicated in
the text.
Jared Israel:
Mr. Ambassador it's a great honor to speak with you.
For our readers, let me say that your brother,
Slobodan Milosevic, has just won the Sholokhov prize,
named for Mikhail Sholokhov, author of the great
Russian novel, And Quiet Flows the Don. Could you
say a bit more about the prize?
Borislav Milosevic:
Yes. It is perhaps the most
distinguished Russian award, given to artists and
political leaders of outstanding achievement. Today at
the award ceremony I accepted the prize for Slobodan
Milosevic because, as the writer Yuri Bondarev said in
bestowing this honor, Slobodan is being held in the
dungeon of The Hague.
Jared Israel:
Dungeon is the word, isn't it? They
don't even let him meet with Chris Black, the head of
his lawyers' committee. And his living conditions are
outrageous -- terrible food, no exercise, no right to
see his own doctors -- or any heart specialist -- even
though his heart condition is a matter of record. And
forced to be in court all day and to cross-examine
witnesses virtually every day, week after week, which
is unheard-of.
Borislav Milosevic:
I think this award will further
strengthen the fighting spirit of Slobodan Milosevic and
his courage as well.
Jared Israel:
Also it suggests that the Russians see
President Milosevic's resistance as important to
their own experience.
Borislav Milosevic:
Yes. The greater part of Russian
society strongly supports Slobodan and practically nobody
approved his delivery to The Hague, not even those
Rightist parties who were hostile to his government. Both
houses of the Russian parliament voted overwhelmingly to
condemn his kidnapping. Even the mainstream newspapers
publish articles critical of The Hague.
Russian people consider Slobodan Milosevic a hero of
resistance to imperialist intervention, a patriot who
defends his country and his people.
Jared Israel:
This support from Russia is very
encouraging to me.
I interviewed your brother on March 23rd 2001,
just before he was arrested.
During that interview he said that one of the
things US and West European leaders hated about
Yugoslavia was the way you handled the question of national and
religious group relations. There had been so much conflict in the past.
Some groups had been organized by the Nazis and earlier by the Ottoman
Empire to attack Serbs, and Roma and Jews as well of course -- and yet in
Yugoslavia, and this is still true in Serbia, you had schools in 24
different languages and court proceeding in nine languages. When I was
in Serbia this past year I saw that there is still an attitude of mutual
appreciation among different groups.
It seems to me that the strategy of the New World Empire that has
attacked you is to stir up hatred. They use the guidelines laid down by
the Nazis, finding points of weakness in ethnic or religious groups that
will allow the Empire's mass media and operatives to play on cultural
traits that if left alone wouldn't necessarily be a problem. They stir
up hatred in one culture against another in a hideous way, especially
appealing to groups that were once in a dominant position, empowering
their worst elements. The Empire does this more effectively than the
Nazis because they have much more sophisticated mass media. Perhaps the
worst thing is that the mass media romanticizes racist violence by
calling it revenge.
But, contrary to
the media lies (1),
your government never engaged in racism. You always tried to promote
fraternity. This was clear in Slobodan Milosevic's
speech at Kosovo Field in 1989 (2)
and before then too, despite the extremely provocative situation.
Some people say Russia and Serbia are linked, that Serbia is little
Russia. And so the fact that the Russian people, after what they've been
through, the terrible trauma of the 1990s, the fact that they can see as
their beacon this man who stands for social justice and tolerance, this
gives me hope. Because there is another possible beacon -- ethnic hatred,
anti-Semitism, which has reared its head in Russia in the past, a "Black
Hundreds" solution.
Borislav Milosevic: You're
completely right. There was no kind of discrimination in Yugoslavia, and
while some former Yugoslav Republics have become virtual mono-ethnic
states, Serbia hosts a million refugees of all
national and religious groups and one-third of our population is not
ethnic Serbs. (3)
Serbia did not abolish the autonomy of Kosovo in 1989 as some
so-called experts claim. Only certain extreme and inappropriate elements of
statehood were removed from what was after all a provincial government.
This was done to prevent the de facto creation of a separate state in Kosovo.
Jared Israel: Which is precisely what NATO and the UN are
supporting now -- a separate Kosovo.
Borislav Milosevic: Yes.
Kosovo Albanians were not deprived of any human or cultural rights in
1989. The same was true of people in [the Serbian province of]
Vojvodina. In fact, Kosovo Albanians continued to have cultural rights
unequalled in the rest of Europe.
The accusations of loss of autonomy were contrived. The secessionists
organized or forced ethnic Albanians to boycott
State institutions and set up parallel institutions for purely
political reasons. (4)
Everyone knows that schools, universities, the press, hospitals and
TV were maintained in Kosovo in the Albanian language, even during this
decade-long boycott. The secessionists organized this boycott to provide
Western media with provocative
images and to create a no-alternative situation for Albanians. All
political manipulation. (4a)
This is clear from the leaflet which Slobodan Milosevic showed The
Hague 'court' while he was cross-examining [ethnic Albanian leader]
Ibrahim Rugova. The leaflet, which was signed by the KLA and Rugova,
ordered ethnic Albanians to leave Kosovo during the bombing. Do you see
the game they played?
This demonstrates their dual purpose: creating the false appearance
that Serbia was causing ethnic Albanians to suffer, so that this could
be broadcast to the NATO countries, and fostering a situation within
Kosovo where compromise was near impossible. This was behind everything
they did, including the
so-called Racak massacre
and the exodus of the
ethnic Albanian population during the NATO aggression. (4b)
Jared Israel: And once
they got the Albanians to leave, they put them in refugee camps under
KLA control, with NATO's blessing. Even the Western media had stories
reporting that these camps featured non-stop
hate-the-Serbs-and-'Gypsies' indoctrination.
Borislav Milosevic:
Yet during the three months in
this Hague 'court', we have seen one after another
witness testify they never even heard of the Kosovo
Liberation Army.
Jared Israel:
It would embarrass NATO. They claim
they are fighting terrorism, but these people are all
members -- or leaders -- of a terrorist group.
Borislav Milosevic:
Yes. It is a problem.
At the very beginning of the trial it seemed as if Mr. May, whom they
call 'judge,' was trying to create the impression of impartiality. But
now he openly behaves as an extension of the prosecutor. He prompts and
assists witnesses, allowing them every liberty including making
political speeches. But he cuts off Slobodan Milosevic and does not
allow him to conduct cross-examination fully or to express his
opinion.
This is very alarming. It creates a precedent for violating accepted
legal principles including the impartiality of courts, the very basis of
law. It requires the strongest international protest.
This on top of the fact that Slobodan Milosevic is a head of state,
overthrown by foreign money and then kidnapped by foreign agents. Who is
next?
Jared Israel:
I think this so-called trial makes
the Reichstag Fire case look good. At least Dimitrov
was allowed to present his case.
Borislav Milosevic:
Yes, this Hague 'court' behaves like someone's instrument. Since its
foundation it has been a tool of aggression against Yugoslavia.
In some of my statements here in Russia I often say that the Yugoslav
crisis was created in order to reorganize the whole of international
relations in accordance with American interests and expansionism and it
was done in a very conscious way.
Jared Israel: You know,
also it was a step towards the encirclement of Russia, wasn't it?
Because isn't it true that those who would attack Russia need to
consolidate their hold in the Balkans first? And if you look at what has
happened, NATO now surrounds
Russia from Central Asia to the Baltic. They have penetrated a dozen
countries. (5)
Borislav Milosevic: The
aggression in Yugoslavia was an attempt to impose new International
rules to justify NATO, a regional military organization, usurping the
sovereign rights of countries outside its previously claimed zone of
responsibility. So military and geopolitical expansion is presented as
humanitarian peace making. Terrorist attacks are launched and then
intervention is threatened if a country defends itself, and all this is
justified by a whole new interpretation of international law so that now
even the United Nations is employed to legitimize geopolitical
expansion.
There were in the past many other examples of violations of the UN
charter: Vietnam, Granada, and so on, and this includes the sending of
Russian troops to Afghanistan. However, none of these instances were
sanctioned by the Security Council.
In this sense, the Yugoslav case was something new, an attempt to
create an international legal framework to justify the destruction of a
country by terrorist forces. And what took place after Sept. 11, that is
NATO's expansion into Central Asia, is a continuation.
So, in the Yugoslavia crisis we saw this new quality --
aggression condoned by international law and
international legal structures. And after September 11 we
see this process moving into a new stage. This makes it
clear that both the aggression against Yugoslavia and the
expansion of NATO from a West European organization into
Eastern Europe -- these were of more than regional
importance. (5)
Jared Israel: You know one
of the interesting things about September 11th is that here we see an
Empire which has organized most of the terrorism in the world, mainly
starting with Afghanistan, but they claim to be leading a crusade
against terrorism.
The whole strategy of the US intervention in Afghanistan, beginning
in 1979, was to promote terrorism. They and the Saudis used the Wahhabi
form of Islam, pouring money into the madresses which became schools
training the terrorists that subsequently plagued Chechnya, Bosnia,
Kosovo, Macedonia, Kashmir and I think they are in the Middle East as
well.
And this same terrorism which they have created -- and there is a lot
of indication that Mr. bin Laden is
still connected with the CIA (6)
although now that NATO is entrenched in Central Asia
they conveniently stopped talking about him -- this same terrorism which
they unleash in order to destabilize areas is also used as an excuse to
intervene. So it is a tool of many purposes. Very convenient and very
American, because it's very American to have a tool that does two things
at once. A gadget. Terrorism is a political gadget because on the one
hand they can use it to attack multiethnic society as they did in Bosnia
and then on the other hand they can use it as the excuse to invade, as
they are now doing with Central Asia.
But what shows their hypocrisy is -- and you may or
may not know about this -- the United States is still
shipping in
millions of militant Islamic fundamentalist
textbooks (6a) into Afghanistan.
Now why on earth would they be doing this if they were sincerely fighting
against Islamic fundamentalism? They just used this terrorist movement
which they themselves had created as an excuse to move in.
Just one other point that occurred to me when you were talking is
that the conduct and discourse of your government, which was the last
legitimate government in Yugoslavia since what's there now
was created by
the US, Germany and Norway -- the discourse of your government
respected political ideas. (7)
This New World Empire attacks the very possibility of political
discourse by shattering the link between words and what they define -
the Empire bombs people and calls it humanitarian. They manufacture
events -- we saw that with
Racak.
And they simply
rewrite
history (8), including
manufacturing a fictional version of
your brother's famous 1989
speech. (1)
By doing these things they undermine the possibility of rational
discussion because truth becomes whatever the powers-that-be and their
media portray as true -- it's a function of what's shown on TV. And at
the same time, they reduce politics to threat and violence and then they
say, "Alas, that's reality." But your brother takes ideas
seriously.
One of the organizations orchestrating the *anti-human* actions at
The Hague is called, amazingly, Human Rights Watch. I was present the
first few days of President Milosevic's 'trial' at The Hague and I got
to observe Richard Dicker, a top HRW bureaucrat, in operation. Not only
was he virtually the only person representing the 'Tribunal' to the
press -- I mean, he was Carla del Ponte's spokesman! -- but both the press
and 'Tribunal' officials clearly deferred to him, and he was often
closeted with the prosecutors. I saw this with my own eyes. I commented
to one of the senior reporters, "It looks like Dickers is running
the show," and the reporter laughed and said, "Dickers *is*
the show."
We have several articles in preparation about HRW. Their board of
directors is a Who's Who of the Imperial establishment, including Warren
Zimmermann, the U.S. Ambassador who helped destroy Yugoslavia including
by sponsoring
Alijah
Izetbegovic, the fundamentalist who devastated
Bosnia (9) and
George Soros who boasts that he helped his father run an extortion racket for
the Nazis in Hungary
during World War Two, visiting Jewish families targeted for death camps
and demanding all their money in exchange for safe passage. And now he
runs a privatized adjunct to the CIA. And this is *Human Rights*
Watch.
HRW demonizes anybody who stands up to Imperial-organized terror.
When NATO sent the KLA to attack Macedonia, Human Rights Watch condemned
Macedonian security troops for resisting.
When I interviewed President Milosevic I asked why your government
accepted defeat during the coup of 2000 instead of going to war against
your opponents. He said something like, "We wanted to avoid being
sucked into a civil war, which would allow NATO to intervene on the
grounds that Serbs are 'hopelessly violent.' Moreover, it is easy to
kill people but it isn't easy to bring them back."
Despite everything that has been done to you, you resisted descending
into a nightmare pit. You have upheld political discourse against this
Imperial onslaught.
I read a thing the other day by Noam Chomsky, whom a lot of people
put on a pedestal. In it Chomsky makes the sweeping generalization that
counter-terrorism "is terrorism carried out by the state." But
that's a very simple minded approach. Because, contrary to what Chomsky
says happened in Yugoslavia, when you fought the terrorists in Kosovo -
who were themselves sponsored by NATO countries -- when you fought them,
the Yugoslav Army
took causalities rather than endangering civilians. (10)
Now one cannot say that *taking* causalities rather than hurting
civilian is the same as *not* taking casualties and hurting the
civilians. So all counter-terror is not terror. There are choices in the
unfortunate situation of fighting terrorism as in everything. And of
course saying, "counter-terrorism is state terror" has the
effect of obscuring these choices and may end up justifying terrorism -
because after all the terrorists are by definition no worse than the
people fighting them.
And this current tendency to reduce human existence to one equivalent
evil, where 'humanitarian' means 'bombing' and resistance to terrorism
is virtually by definition the same as terror, where it is considered
natural for ethnic groups to try to kill each other and we are supposed
to root for whichever side the Imperial media has portrayed as victims
so that whatever they do is justified as "revenge" against
whatever group has currently been labeled "just like Hitler" -
that, it seems to me, is what your brother has been fighting. That is
why I'm supporting him. Sorry for my long speech!
Borislav Milosevic: [In English] Yes yes! No, no it's very good speech!
[In Serbo-Croatian] The whole concept that your government is trying
to impose on the world is very similar to what they preached when there
was a bipolar world, creating a positive force and its opponent, a
negative force, which today is called international terrorism; and in
that struggle everything is allowed. And nobody may be neutral in that
fight.
So in the conditions of world supremacy of one power, the tendency
for having new armaments of mass destruction, new lethal arms is
increasing and it leads to development and strengthening of terrorism.
International terrorism cannot be suppressed by the use of force alone,
especially, as you correctly pointed out, when the supreme power is
itself organizing terrorism in various ways in Kosovo, in Afghanistan,
in Chechnya. So international security can be created only on the basis
of universality, and not on the basis of isolation and destruction of
several countries that allegedly represent some axis of evil.
And you have correctly pointed out that many organizations defined as
terrorist for instance and especially in the Middle East, were created
and are still controlled by the American secret services.
And the American policy has created great harm in other ways. There
is the destruction of the
environment and the economy in Yugoslavia because of the attack. And
there is the increasing danger of both nuclear accident and nuclear
war.
Jared Israel: I think you
made a very important point, that the Empire wishes to create the
perception of a bipolar world, in which they are one pole and the other
is terrorism.
This Empire's thinkers are aware that every action has an equal and
opposite reaction. Because it's a law of politics, isn't it? So
opposition inevitably develops. And because they are clever, instead of
only attacking the opposition, the Empire tries to mold the opposition.
How can they lose if they are fighting something they control? Their own
nightmare image, in effect.
By declaring this war on terrorism, they are fighting forces which
they covertly control. Then they also defend these terrorists, whom they
actually organized, by means of the 'human rights' apparatus which they
also control -- and this ends up luring some people into sympathy and
support for the terrorists.
Such people may not be thinking clearly or maybe they've just fallen
into the natural reaction that "the enemy of my enemy is my
friend" -- it's a human trait to think that way. So we see people on
what considers itself the Left in the West making heroes out of the
Taliban and other terrorists. But these terrorists are not fundamentally
opponents of this Empire. The Taliban, for example, are victims of a
guiding principle of this Empire, which is, "We have no friends, we
only have future victims." This Empire may attack those whom it
supported yesterday, as the need arises.
The Taliban were
supported by them (11) and
then abruptly they became a target because the US needed an excuse, or
more properly, the Empire needed an excuse, because it is not the same
as the US, this Empire is above the US government, the Empire needed an
excuse to move into Central Asia. This was for geopolitical reasons.
They wanted to give Central Asian nations the
"DOS" (12) treatment,
which is penetration by
Fifth Column organizations, and we see this now going on in Central Asia
accompanied by military penetration and the corruption of the remnants
of the Soviet officer corps disguised as military aid and training. The
goal is to build a force in these countries capable of striking Russia.
The Empire knows that Russia, in alliance with China, is the primary
real threat to their control.
None of this is contradicted by Mr. Putin's complete capitulation.
As we saw with
Macedonia, capitulation
does not protect a country from attack by this Empire. Indeed, the
experience of the Taliban shows that even being created by this Empire
won't help if they decide to recycle
you! (13)
So this move to complete the encirclement of Russia is justified by
the "war against Terrorism." And so some people in the peace
movement, perhaps not giving enough thought to what's going on, but
simply reacting to the appearance, which is that the Empire is attacking
Islamic fundamentalist terrorists -- some people conclude that the
fundamentalists are an ally in resisting NATO. Meanwhile, in fact, huge
numbers of Taliban
are being incorporated into the new Afghan army
(14) which is still a Fundamentalist
army, just more directly under Imperial control and with an end to local
squabbling, or so they hope.
When Russia was the opposite pole, that was a problem. Russia had
positive ideas and practices regarding social equality. It was weak on
democracy and sometimes on international morality but strong on social
equality, and this encouraged dangerous egalitarianism. But with Islamic
terrorists as the opposite pole, when potential opponents are drawn to
the opposite pole, what are they idolizing? The most backward and
fascistic forces -- the very people Saudi Arabia and US used to destroy
the secular state in Afghanistan.
So these jihad terrorists, the most brutal killers, who condone
violence against women, whose definition of democracy is enforcing the
Quran, who advocate religious war -- these fanatics become the heroes for
kids who want to change the world. What a nightmare!
Borislav Milosevic: It
is a difficult situation.
Regarding this, let me say something about the war on
terror... We in Yugoslavia consider September 11th a tragic
event.
Perhaps your readers are not aware of the horrific
destruction done to my country [during the NATO attack on
Yugoslavia]. This was a war of terror. It was launched to
support terrorists in Kosovo. And it was conducted by
planes dropping bombs, often encased in uranium, from a
great height, not by troops on the ground. Terrible
destruction, massive killings, environmental devastation.
And all carried out from a great height. Against a
country which hadn't invaded or threatened anyone.
So this
too was terror. (15)
But we take no satisfaction regarding Sept. 11. On the
contrary, we sympathize with those who have suffered in
the US.
It is understandable that people in your country would have strong
reactions when those terrible events happened last September. But now
time has passed. A more thoughtful approach may be taken. A road of
peace may be pursued. I hope that people in your country will think
deeply about these questions. It is very important to the world.
Jared Israel: Thank you, Mr. Ambassador.
Borislav Milosevic: [In English]
OK, Israel. It was very very big pleasure for me and I am very
pleased to contact to you like this and thank you very much. Very big
pleasure for me.
Jared Israel: Well, thank
your mother and father for having produced two men who have contributed
so much to the world...
Borislav Milosevic: [Laughs. Says in English:] Don't overestimate things.
Jared Israel: But it's the truth. Where would we
be without Serbia? You resisted. What can I say? The Serbs seem to do it every time.
REFERENCES :
|
| (1) |
 |
MEDIA MISREPRESENTATION OF MILOSEVIC'S WORDS: A REVIEW OF THE EVIDENCE
by Professor Francisco Gil-White
|
| (2) |
|
Milosevic Speech at Kosovo Field (1989)
|
| (3) |
|
"BY ADDING THREE LIES, ONE DOES NOT GET THE TRUTH -- ONLY A BIGGER LIE"
a statement Slobodan Milosevic made
during a pre-'trial' hearing at The Hague. It contradicts
what one might expect Milosevic to say, based on his
portrait as drawn in the Western media.
|
| (4) |
|
In the classic text -
Seeing Yugoslavia Through a Dark Glass: Politics, Media and the Ideology of Globalization -
Diana Johnstone quotes a semi-internal
publication of the very anti-Milosevic International
Crisis Group which states that Albanian secessionists in
fact boycotted Albanian-language institutions in Serbia (as
opposed to having been deprived of such cultural
institutions by supposed racists, as they and the Western
media claimed). In other words, they and the Western
'experts' lied.
The relevant quote is here.
Ms. Johnstone's article is generally instructive in
seeing through the dark glass of misinformation about
Yugoslavia.
|
| (4a) |
|
Speaking of 'provocative images', in
Art in the New World Order, written in spring of 2000,
a news photographer discusses the amazing fact that from
1998 to 2000 virtually all the top photojournalism awards
were given for pictures of crying Kosovo Albanian women.
What will future generations make of this?
Can be read (and sample prize-winning photos seen) here.
|
| (4b) |
|
"creating the false appearance
that Serbia was causing ethnic Albanians to suffer, so that this could
be broadcast to the NATO countries, and fostering a situation within
Kosovo where compromise was near impossible. This was behind everything
they did..."
see The Racak Hoax
and Why Albanians Fled During NATO Bombing
|
| (5) |
|
Afghan Operation Leaves Russia 'Encircled' by US and NATO
by Sergey Ptichkin and Aleksey Chichkin
|
| (6) |
|
Gaping Holes in the 'CIA vs. bin Laden' Story
by Jared Israel
|
| (6a) |
|
Bush & the Media Cover up the Jihad Schoolbook Scandal
by Jared Israel
|
| (7) |
|
Did any major power NOT fund the Kostunica campaign?
|
| (8) |
|
The Black Hole
by Petar Makara ... documents that 'Yugoslavia' was removed from the Britanica when the existence of said country became politically incorrect.
|
| (9) |
|
Alijah Izetbegovic was
portrayed in the Western media as a moderate in favor of
a multiethnic Bosnia. Nothing could be further from the
truth. For a revealing quote from his book, Islamic
Declaration, and a bit on his role during World War II, see
JOE LIEBERMAN -- APOLOGIST FOR THE FASCIST KLA
|
| (10) |
|
The Other Side of the Story
by Dusan Vilic and Bosko Todorovic
Written by two retired Yugoslav generals with access to
never-before released army orders, this truly amazing
book documents the ways the Yugoslav Army strove to fight
NATO-backed terrorists in a civilian-friendly way, thus
demonstrating that - contrary to Chomsky - counter-terrorism
need not equal terror.
The issue of civilian relations is
discussed throughout including in chapter seven.
The book can be accessed
in full, or, for quicker loading, chapter-by-chapter,
starting with chapter one.
For whole book go to
http://www.icdsm.org/more/book.htm
or for chapter one (with link to chapter two, and so on)
go to
http://emperors-clothes.com/book/book1.htm
|
| (11) |
|
Congressman: U.S. Set Up Anti-Taliban to be Slaughtered
includes text of Congressional hearing and comments by Jared Israel.
|
| (12) |
|
DOS stands for Democratic Opposition of Serbia, a charming
use of language, since these 'democrats' overthrew the
elected Yugoslav government and burned the Parliament and
these 'Serbs' were given what were in Serbian terms
astronomical amounts of money by the US and other states
in the new Empire in exchange for 'their' nation. For
more information, see these two texts, which also have
useful references found in 'sections marked Footnotes' or
'Further Reading':
a) Kostunica Says Some Backers 'Unconsciously work for American Imperial Goals...
which includes the infamous remark that the US shipped 'suitcases of cash' to DOS.
b) US Arrogance and Yugoslav Elections
|
| (13) |
|
On NATO's use of UN-paid terrorists to attack Macedonia see
SORRY, VIRGINIA, BUT THEY ARE NATO TROOPS, NOT 'REBELS'
Note -- If you are not familiar with what has been done
to Macedonia, the phrase "UN-paid terrorists"
may sound like the worst hyperbole. But read the article
and you will see that it is understatement.
|
| (14) |
|
For documentation of claim that much
of Taliban has been incorporated into the new Afghan Army, see here.
|
| (15) |
|
Death on a Very Small Planet
strikingly similar pictures of the destruction caused by September
11th and by NATO's bombing of Yugoslavia.
|
|
